Ah. Hmm. To me tho, rape itself IS a violent act, whether or not there are bruises afterwards. Even if the victim is handily unconsious, surely someone sticking parts of themselves *into your body* when you don't want them there IS violent? (not even getting to teh whole biological factors that sex you are not prepared to be having is going to be uncomfortable, if not downright painful. Unless he's a considerate rapist who brought his own lube...).
I suppose part of my concern is that this might give rise to the argument of "I was drunk and so it was rape" and thus divorcing oneself from any responsibility. True, but how often does that actually happen? And do men not bear some repsonsibility for themselves and NOT getting themselves into that situation in the first place? How is it different from saying "I was drunk so I didn't realise you didn't want sex" and thus divorcing oneself from any responsibility?
I do agree there is responsibility on both sides. But emphasis is *always* on the woman's responsibility. Even in the article the women concerned SAID 'i was to blame' for letting herself get into the situation. NO sense that the man was *equally* to blame for letting himself get into the same situation. and then for having sex with her.
It's going to be one that there is never a clear answer on. But (to steal a comment from elsewhere on the same topic), where are the articles urging men to be more careful? On how many men think its ok to have sex with a comatose women? On WHY they think that's ok (because they had dinner? Because she was flirting? because she invited them home? because she's there?)
None of this is directly aimed at you btw, most of it is thinking out loud (which is why I am actually enjoyining this now, rather than being ENRAGED as much, it's forcing me to think about WHY i got enraged etc).
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2008-09-05 11:03 am (UTC)I suppose part of my concern is that this might give rise to the argument of "I was drunk and so it was rape" and thus divorcing oneself from any responsibility.
True, but how often does that actually happen? And do men not bear some repsonsibility for themselves and NOT getting themselves into that situation in the first place?
How is it different from saying "I was drunk so I didn't realise you didn't want sex" and thus divorcing oneself from any responsibility?
I do agree there is responsibility on both sides. But emphasis is *always* on the woman's responsibility. Even in the article the women concerned SAID 'i was to blame' for letting herself get into the situation. NO sense that the man was *equally* to blame for letting himself get into the same situation. and then for having sex with her.
It's going to be one that there is never a clear answer on. But (to steal a comment from elsewhere on the same topic), where are the articles urging men to be more careful? On how many men think its ok to have sex with a comatose women? On WHY they think that's ok (because they had dinner? Because she was flirting? because she invited them home? because she's there?)
None of this is directly aimed at you btw, most of it is thinking out loud (which is why I am actually enjoyining this now, rather than being ENRAGED as much, it's forcing me to think about WHY i got enraged etc).