hellison | (no subject)

(no subject)

At the risk of opening the can of messy worms that posts about rape always seem to, this quote this morning, tagged on the end of a brief news report just made me twitch -
The attack was condemned by local politicians who urged women to look out for each other during the current party season
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4551200.stm

Because of course
a. You can't trust ANY men to look out for you
b. It's entirely the responsibility of women to make sure you're safe.

Yes, it is good that they are concerned, it is good advice in its way and yes, I may well be reading too much into it, but that's just how it struck me.
I'm not sure if it's the implication that you can't trust/rely on men or that it's all down to women too look out for each other because it's our responsibility to make sure we are safe, not men's responsibility to have some self control/respect for women that bothers me more.
Why aren't they urging men not to be rapists in the first place?

Hmm. I was going to say I've obviously been lucky with the men I know/have met, but surely it's not 'luck' that my male friends aren't rapists and that I can trust them fully? Surely that's NORMAL?

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The other message you get a lot is that you should have other women look after you because you'll be too drunk to do it yourself. Because hey, a group of women out on the town, they'll all be too drunk to notice a dangerous situation, won't they? And they'll let each other walk home alone, singing loudly in dark alleys at 2am, eh?

I never know what I want the message to be. "It's alright, we'll castrate rapists" or just "carry Mace". This current slogan doesn't seem to cover it for me.

Well obviously we can't be let out safely on our OWN! Dear gods, you'd think we were rational adult creatures with brains or something, not just toddlers with breasts...

I'm not sure what I'd like the message to be either. But *something* aimed at men, perhaps hinting that they might bear some responsibility might be nice.

Well, no.

Because obviously all men who'd commit rape are monstrous creatures outside the bounds of society, therefore not human, therefore animals. And everyone knows animals don't read the news. So there's not a lot of point in targetting them.

I wouldn't necessarily go along with that, tempting though it may be. Sadly, rapists are humans. Who often feel rage and impotence. Rape is often about the abuse of power and the need to control - the victim is dehumanised and is made to represent something or someone else - almost becomes a symbol of whatever the perpetrator feels rage against. This is not a justification of rape, it's just to say that if we remove the humanity from perpetrators we run the risk of utterly failing to engage with the reasons why rape occurs and therefore fail to deal with the problem in a meaningful and effective way. It's bloody goddamn difficult though

That's what I meant. :P I was being sarcastic about the tendecny of TEH MEDIA to deny the humanity of 'them', whoever 'them' may be - obviously they are never going to be the people reading this newspaper.

my sarcasm clearly needs some work!

Whooooops!

Or Thesme needs a brane transplant ;)

I don't understand the widespread occurrence of rape. I don't know what it is in men that makes it so common. I can almost see why it's always been such an acceptable and expected practice in war, or warrior societies in the modern world, because you hate your enemy and by defeating them thoroughly you are winning the territory/food/women for yourself.

But that's historically. I can only assume that somewhere back in genetics it became beneficial for men to have a rape impulse. Regardless, they've still got it.

I think the ad campaigns just assume you can't change rapists, putting them in the same category as paedophiles. They also assume it's widespread (it is) and that the only reaction is to protect the women (I'd argue "By giving them axes", but that's just me).

Men know they bear the responsibility. Telling them "hey - don't go rapin' now..." isn't going to stop the ones who will. Better to ~~arm~~ educate the women as to safe behaviours.

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I guess it depends on what you define as "responsibility". I think we do bear the responsibility for not stabbing people in the face, inasmuchas we decide not to do it.

Sorry, should have been clearer. Was answering the line "something aimed at men indicating they bear responsibility" (instead of only advertising to women).

Should have read: "Rapists know they bear the responsibility" for actions they took.

But yes, as a man who hangs around with entirely too many feminist groups, I do get sick of people assuming "all men have it in them" or "it's only ever men who rape, because they're built that way and women need protecting from them". Bollocks. Sexual and domestic abuse are *very common* but generalities never apply.

I do think the point needs to be made more often that rapist is NOT the default setting in men, and those that do commit rape aren't just 'being men', they're being criminals and the *exception*, in the same way that muggers, theives, murders etc are.

You make a good point (along with

heliotic below). The men likely to listen to that aren't the ones who would commit rape in the first place.
Also it would probably lend more to the 'all men are potential rapists' and 'they can't help themselves' claims, which both really bug me too.

Axes would be good tho. Or knives. I'm starting to think the nuns may have been onto something when they told us to always carry a hatpin.

Indeed. The sentence should still be re-written as urging people to look out for each other in the party season.

Yes, that was the point I was aiming at, but didn't manage to express quite so well!

Hellison - have a look at this link - in fact EVERYONE have a look at this link:

http://www.rcni.ie/assault_6.htm

It's scary how pervasive myths about rape and sexual assault are throughout the media and wider society. Anyway, have a read and let me know what you think

Good link.

Very good link. Most of the myths I knew about to some extent, but it's always good to see figures.
Well not that the figure themselves are good, they're appalling, but to see it in black and white like that, with official statistics, is always a way to hammer home the message to people who just don't believe it's that much of a problem.

frothfrothfroth.

I agree 100% with you on this, so no further comment. Although, frothfroth. MASSIVE disproportionate media-fuelled issues behind this[1]. Plus not a little gender inequality[2].

[1] Remember the article on adults and children and the frankly unnatural and disproportionate limits placed on interactions between them due to media overkill?

[2] Which I don't really mind, because I don't believe in equality of gender, merely equality of opportunity. Men can't have babies, but I'll defend their right to have babies, given the opportunity.

so much for "no further comment" :(

Also this one:

http://www.rcni.ie/maleSur.htm

and this:
http://www.silcom.com/~paladin/madv/stoprape.html

obviously, you don't have to agree with these links, just food for thought...

Another excellent link. Attitudes to abuse/rape of men seem to be even more shameful and something that so rarely gets highlighted or even brought up.

The way male victims are treated is an absolute disgrace. They are more likely to be ridiculed by those they report to. Their masculinity and identity is called into question. They have next to no chance of securing a conviction in court. They are at high risk of committing suicide or self-harming. It's a goddamn fucking disgrace.

On another note - the whole thing about a genetic tendency towards rape is something I'm very very uncomfortable with. All the research indicates it is a social/emotional phenomenon to do with suppressed anger and a sense of powerlessness (justified or not). The implications of the genetic argument are pretty horrible - either all men are programmed to rape (which I just don't believe at all) or the children of women who have been raped carry the gene and that's just a horror show. There is no evidence at all for the presence of a rape gene. Not in twin studies, not in the human genome study, nowhere. There's a big popular movement around these days for explaining lots and lots and lots of things via genetics, but there just ain't no evidence for it.

Irish people - remember Pat Kenny's famous rape gene argument?
Pat Kenny (an android masquerading as a broadcaster/presenter) has a radio show weekdays 10-12. During one of our interminable pro-choice debates, he was doing a slot on abortion. Pat supported the pro-choice person by adding the infamous argument that a woman who had been raped should have the right to an abortion because her child would carry the father's genes including the 'rape' gene. The pro-choice person was flabbergasted. A public outcry was sparked. Pat's response to this was to come on air the next day and announce that he had spoken to a friend of his who was a Professor of Genetics in Trinity College, Dublin and his friend had agreed with him. The 'friend' came on the next day and denied he had ever said or supported such a thing.

Dear God.

Didn't hear that one at all. He really is just the new gay burne isn't he? But then you'd never catch me listening to anything else when Ray is on.

RE male victims I have no idea how they're treated, which is an indication in itself of just how far it's swept under the carpet. There have been many many discussions on rape lately around LJ and elsewhere and I have actually seen people say 'but men don't get raped' and genuinely believe it.

oh yeah you'd have to look long and hard to find anything about male rape, but think of all those prison references - it's kind of like it's there but it's not there.

We've come across some shocking stuff about how the Gardai treat men who report either violent sexual assault (as opposed to child abuse) or domestic violence perpetrated against them. Sometimes they're literally laughed out of it and told to F off.

my understanding is that men who are raped rarely report it because either 1: they're straight and fear that they will be considered gay because of it, or 2: they are gay, and feel (sometimes with some good reason) that it will be assumed that they must have wanted it. because, of course, all gay men will fuck anyone, anywhere, any time. shyeah, riiiight.

i know one (gay) man in belfast who was raped. he didn't even consider going to the police. and i should say that as i understand it he was attacked by TWO strangers. nasty.

It's an utter disgrace - I would add in there that there are a fair few men who have reported (doon sooth that is) and have been treated with utter contempt.

My view is - being male or female, gay or straight, black, white or brown and so on makes no difference to the trauma and abuse involved in the act. Anyone who reports sexual assault of any nature has the absolute human right to be heard, respected and supported. Enough of these stupid distinctions. Abuse of power is abuse of power and is fundamentally wrong. Why can't society get to grips with this?

ar ar ar ar ar ar aar

Second link also very good (should have read both before commenting!)
Have you heard of the White Ribbon campaign? It's something very similar, started in Canada, but they're international now - http://www.whiteribbon.ca/international/

That's good - wonder why IRL ain't on the list?

Grrrrrrrrrrr
rar
rar
rantyrar

CROSS NOW

Maybe no-one has started it up in Ireland yet? No idea, I only heard about it very recently!

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Because we all know women never harm/abuse children, don't we?

I really hope they upgraded that guy. What a humiliating thing to do!

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