What Is Wrong With the World??

[hellison]

1. headline from bbcni re cervical cancer jab - "Girls urged to ABSTAIN in jab row"
why? Because its a dirty cancer you can get from SEX and obviously if you've been having sex you deserve it. Or... something.
More from the helpful FAQ here -

Colin Hart, Director of The Christian Institute, said the way to tackle the problem was not to offer injections, but to tell girls not to have under-age sex.

Ahh. So it's only *underage* sex that causes cancer. Good Girls won't get it, and thus don't need vaccinated. Well that's all clear then!

I know there are Other Issues around the vaccination and which version was chosen etc, but that's not what these people are saying. They're saying girls shouldn't be vaccinated against a potentially TERMINAL DISEASE, because then they might have sex! And we can't have that!!
Would there be the same outcry if it was discovered testicular cancer was also linked to a virus and teenage boys were offered it?

2. This article about date rape is making my head explode with WTF and RAGE. Because obviously if you go drinking with a guy who turns out not to care whether or not you're concious when he gets off on/in you, well that's YOUR fault you silly loose drunken woman. It's not like he's done anything WRONG, or should face any consequences for it! SKIN CRAWLING NOW.

SEND KITTENS PLZ. NEED HAPPY THOUGHTS.

ETA New Mistful Fic! and at lunchtime too. Couldn't have been better timed.

EDIT 2 - just to add, now the original RAGE has calmed slightly, this turned into a thought provoking discussion; a timely reminder the world isn't completley full of morons. Or at least my flist isn't ;) Thanks!

AAAAND if we can keep it civil kids, that would be good. _unhurt_, I still have crutches. And I know where you live. Keep up the ranting tho. Rants Good. CIder better. MOAR CIDER

Comments

[hellison.livejournal.com]

True, but if someone *does* break in, people don't tend to imply it was all your fault in the first place and tell you there's not point telling the police because it'll be the thief's word against yours and he'll just say you gave him the stuff anyway.

[kanaalzahir.livejournal.com]

Well, no, and whereas I firmly believe people should be encouraged and not discouraged to report all types of crimes, including rape, it is important to recognise the difference between that type of case and say, theft. Simply in that if you can prove the actual circumstances in a break-in (a complete stranger, possible high on drugs, enters your home while you're not there and makes off with all your valuables) it's typically not the sort of activity that people consent to, wheras in a rape case the actual circumstances (totally plastered people who have never met before engage in sexual activities) is not enough, because that's something tons of people go out and do of their free will pretty much every Saturday.

[lazy-hoor.livejournal.com]

Yes and no. As I said on my LJ there are occasions where people have misguided drunken sex which they later regret and this isn't rape. It's rape when, in the law in the Republic of Ireland anyway, a man is 'reckless' as to whether he believed consent was given: so if a woman is ratarsed to a degree where she's passing out or can barely stand etc and a man has sex with her, then that's classed as rape.

To your earlier point, who's to say what I should and shouldn't wear and where I should and shouldn't go? Yes I'm fairly clued in (these days) about my personal safety but there has been the odd occasion in the past where, after a few pints, I've walked home on a route where in a sensible frame of mind I wouldn't have gone that way in the dark, but y'know - no taxis around, I want the quickest route home. If I had been attacked I'd rather my drunken stupidity didn't have a bearing on my attackers conviction or led people to believe I was asking for it.

Also, I'd rather my clothing not be an issue. A short skirt or a low-cut top really shouldn't be seen as dangerous. I mean, if you take that view where will it end? A glimpse of ankle on show? A shapely calf?

Is it not more reasonable to ask men to not have sex if consent isn't very clear, rather than say to women don't do X, Y or Z?

[kanaalzahir.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling that you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that a woman, perhaps drunk, who goes this or that way is to blame for anything that happpens to her. Of course everyone should always be nice to everyone else, and not steal their things or rape them whether their houses are unlocked or they are drunk beyond belief. But at the same time, let's not be naïve shall we? People DO steal and rape and do all sorts of nasty stuff to others, and really, why does it cause an outrage to say that so and so are known risk factors (to get picky, the highest risk factor for being raped is being in a relationship with a man) and if you prefer not to get stolen from or raped you could start by avoiding them?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_unhurt_/]

to get picky, the highest risk factor for being raped is being in a relationship with a man

since you admit that that's a massive risk factor, why aren't you advocating that people maybe start with the BIGGEST risk factors and just do not have relationships - social, sexual or otherwise - with men?*

women are ALWAYS being told how to avoid rape. and it DOESN'T STOP RAPE. and then they get BLAMED WHEN THEY ARE RAPED because "if she had only [insert advice] i mean, i'm not saying it was her fault, but...".

if you actually followed all the advice you would have to live in a small metal box that no men could access EVER. you certainly couldn't work, or travel, or socialise, or hike, or jog, or eat out, or travel anywhere without a bodyguard. or, you know, have a LIFE.

also, theft is not ever a good parallel for rape. try picking an invasive physical assault not a property crime.


really, why does it cause an outrage to say that so and so are known risk factors (to get picky, the highest risk factor for being raped is being in a relationship with a man) and if you prefer not to get stolen from or raped you could start by avoiding them?

hmm. why does it cause an outrage? let me think. oh, wait, i know! because women do in fact TRY TO AVOID BEING FUCKING RAPED. jesus. do you think we skip merrily along in our little girly world never giving any thought to the notion? news flash: it's a primary MOTHER FUCKING CONCERN a lot of the time. my #1 issue when i cycle tour alone? is WILL SOME ASSHOLE RAPE ME IN MY TENT. welcome to planet "having a vagina"! "is that guy following me or just walking the same way?" "the car park is dark and the buisness park gates are locked - i hope no-one is lurking out there when i leave the office. i have my keys in my hand, where would i hit him? would it work? is there anyone around if i yell? what if he has a knife?" some weeks i get to have that conversation with myself FIVE TIMES. so excuse me if i think you should close your privileged pie hole. i have a job and a life and as a result i have to weigh the risks of living in a world that has men who rape people in it all the bloody TIME.

and, OH BOY. "prefer not to get raped"? maybe you should choose your language bettter. "prefer". i "prefer" semi-skimmed milk in my tea and cream in my coffee. i don't "prefer" not to get raped. i fucking FEAR it. (also the accompanying risk of, ooh, murder!)

what's with this meme that women just never really thought about it! and go about recklessly getting their silly selves raped!? but logical menz can put us right. why have we never thought of this before? oh MY. guess what? getting drunk and passing out doesn't get you raped. it requires a rapist who chooses to take that action for that to happen. and yet, conveniently all we ever talk about is what women could do differently. and you know what? women's actions are not the problem here.**


*apparently the lesbian seperatists were right all along!
**usual disclaimer excepting the tiny proportion of rapists who are female.

[lazy-hoor.livejournal.com]

I love you.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_unhurt_/]

i always knew that one day my feminazi invective would help me score with the ladies!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_unhurt_/]

p.s. hellison informs me you're a woman too.

which just makes me all the more RRRAR at your comment.

*gives up most hope for the universe*

[hellison.livejournal.com]

Indeed, a lady!. Also, on the choice of language, being a Forner, English isn't her first language. Otherwise, rant away!

[kanaalzahir.livejournal.com]

*gives up most hope for the universe*

A very familiar feeling. I often get it when people feel the need to insult me personally without knowing even as much about me as my sex.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_unhurt_/]

then it's hardly a personal insult, is it?

i responded to what you said not who you are. you could be a hermaphroditic biker mouse from mars and i would still think you're wrong.

[kanaalzahir.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome to think I'm wrong, but I'm afraid your post wasn't very clear on why you think I am wrong (other than me being a stupid man I don't understand you women).

[hellison.livejournal.com]

It is, of course, not so black and white as 'he stole stuff'.
But what's bugging me about the 'blame' issue is that while the victim is often blamed/chastised for getting drunk enough to get into that situation, the rapist never seems to be held similarly to blame for getting drunk enough to get into the same situation.
In 'grey area' situations like the anecdote above, the reaction seems to be more 'the poor guy, he was just drunk, it's not his fault', which is the *reverse* of how the victims are seen (I'm assuming here this happens to men who have been raped too, it's just so underreported its hard to know). HE was the one who has sex with a near comatose woman, so it IS his fault,whether or not it is easily provable in court. His actions, HIS repsonsibility.

I think (and getting v. long winded here, sorry) that as well as saying to girls "be responsible for yourself, don't get yourself in this situation", we should be saying it to boys TOO. Because I don't think the message is getting across that they have to control their actions as well.

I'm not even sure I'm making sense anymore. MOAR KITTINS.

[lazy-hoor.livejournal.com]

oh I've suddenly remembered when I was a student I had an unnerving episode of a man following me (I was on foot, he was in a car, I managed to evade him). I was coming home from a party (on foot, I was poor stude so no taxi fare). And I was wearing a wooly jumper, jeans and DM boots. Which is why I think censoring what women wear is somewhat silly and missing the point.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_unhurt_/]

yep, a guy followed me into my close and threatened to kill me, etc. etc. etc. (the etc. part? not fun!) i was in jeans and a t-shirt and a jacket, wearing converse allstars and carrying a 55 litre green backpack.

clearly it was my fault for having a job in a nightclub bar and wanting to get food & smokes on my way home instead of being escorted to my front door like a Good Woman would have been. there i was, wantonly being out in public as the sun came up like i had some kind of RIGHT.

[repton-infinity.livejournal.com]

I bet the insurance company would blame you :-/

[hellison.livejournal.com]

Heh. Fair point. The bastards!