A Learning Experience

[hellison]

Some time ago, last year I think, I was reading one of the Gossip Mag ilk - Closer/New/Star/whatever on a journey, and I came across the problem page, where the Problem Answerer was Vanessa Felps.
A lady wrote in with a question about a a guy she liked that she hung out with a lot, went to films/cafes/bars with but Did He Like Her. The answer was, which at the time I totally disagreed with was "he must do. To men, women they aren't attracted to are invisible"

I thought "WTF? that's bollocks! I have many male friends to whom I am sure I am not invisible, despite there being no sex! Obviously, this is a pile of sexist (against teh menz) shite!"

Since then, however, I have had occasion to rethink and wonder if she was not, in fact, right. I have discovered that however much I might talk (which is A Lot) , people aren't always listening.

But, until today, I did think they at least realised I was there...

Tonight I went for drinks with a friend V. (male) who moved to England some years ago. As, on many previous occasions, when he's been back, the same small group of friends meet up - ie friends of his who only really meet to see him.
This group usually involves me, V.'s cousin and her husband, his blokey mates S (now shunned), P (who drives) and I. Sometimes more, but that's the basic group. All there tonight except S.

Tonight I had the following conversation

ME - lalalala stuff, things lalallal CIDER LALLALAL TALKING LOUDLY ABOUT STUFF LALALALLA
I. WHAT? You were never like this before!
ME like what?
I. LOUD! You were always so quiet

*silence descends. All look at I.*

Me. Um, What?
I. Loud! and a bit scary! When did that start?
Me. Always? With the loud especially. ALWAYS!
I. I never noticed!
Me well. Every other time we met, there were more people. And by 'people' I mean other ladies, so you never really bothered to pay any attention to me before. You never actually talked to me.

I. (and I swear, he said this) NO! I've known you for 10 years and you were NEVER loud!

Me. ...

Everyone else ...

Me - you heard him say that, right?
Everyone else *nods*, baffled ( and some guffawing)

Me - we've never actually had a conversation before. Beyond the basics. You never *had* to talk to me before.

I. *confused* no! you were always just quiet!

Everyone else - (who, remember, include people I've only met IN HIS COMPANY) QUIET?? HER?? *baffled*


And then we all went home.


So. Seriously, F-list guys, was Vanessa right ? Do Girls (or Boys) You Don't Fancy basically... not exist for you?
I'd have sworn (loudly ;p) that she was talking utter bollocks before, but lately? I'm starting to wonder.

She's not right, is she?

(btw I am not Offended in an OMG Why Doesn't He Fancy Me Way, just... baffled. No-one has EVER said - and again, NOT MAKING THIS UP - "but you were always the quiet one" to me.)

Comments

[glassstrider.livejournal.com]

Vanessa was wrong, on the general principle that men and women are not completely differrent, and those who suggest otherwise are entirely wrong.

Your original instinct was right, I was just confused.

(Or you only ever met him at building sites?)

[hellison.livejournal.com]

Now that i am sober(er) again I am back towards the view that Vanessa was talking complete bollocks - and that, as Mollydot also says, some people do some things, some people don't. To say all X do Y is always going to be bollocks really.


And no, usually pubs, not building sites ;p

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

I think that it is true for some guys and not true for some guys. I don't know which is the majority. I think it is not true for the majority of guys I know well, but I am less likely to hang out with guys it is true for.

[hellison.livejournal.com]

Aye, I think you have it right there! It was just a bit disconcerting - and perhaps a *slight* dent to the ego to have been so completely Unnoticed for all that time ;p

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

I can imagine! Console yourself that he's just a numpty.

Btw, not exactly hilarious, but perhap the unicorns will be satisfied: http://twitpic.com/9ftpq (not finished, btw!)

[hellison.livejournal.com]

aww the eyelashes are very cute! Tho googly eyes would have been hilarious ;p

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Maybe next time!

[failing-angel.livejournal.com]

Do Girls (or Boys) You Don't Fancy basically... not exist for you?
Certainly from my perception, I don't do that - I'm perfectly willing to be corrected; however, it's not conscious.
As a caveat, I think my perceptions of someone may shift if I talk to them direct rather than in the same general group but not part of the conversation that I'm participating in.

Ack!! Just re-reading the comment - yes, people I don't fancy do exist (read that how you will). Then again I do enjoy 'robust debate' down the pub with a mob of people nattering away.


Apologies - 27hrs awake (less about 20 mins doze).

[hellison.livejournal.com]

Robust debate is always fun ;) Particularly if there is cider involved.

I get what you say about changing perceptions once you talk to someone directly, that I can understand! The baffling part was his insistence that I had always been quiet before - as you can probably guess from other replies, due to my... lack of volume control, even people who don't talk to me directly (or indeed ever ;p) usually catch the 'loud' part!

[failing-angel.livejournal.com]

Particularly if there is cider involved
True, you need something to throw over people if it gets heated, and it's always best not to waste something drinkable.

Maybe he'd had his ears syringed in the meantime?

[kake]

I think (a) some people just don't pay attention to people they don't think are important/useful/interesting to them, and (b) for some people, "important/useful/interesting to me" is strongly affected by "how attractive they are to me". So people who're both (a) and (b) might come across in the way Vanessa is describing.

[hellison.livejournal.com]

Very true! I'm am sure I've been guilty of at least A. on occasion; the sentence stuck in my head at the time because it was such a blanket statement about 'all men', which I thought (and still do, now i'm sober again ;p) was completely wrong.

[lazy-hoor.livejournal.com]

It's bollocks. Or, as Mollydot says, perhaps true of some men. Definitely not true for the men I know anyway.

[hellison.livejournal.com]

Aye I'd agree with that. Or apparently not tre for *most* of the men I know ;p (quiet??)

[lazy-hoor.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call you LOUD now... But no, not quiet!

[sleetersoulfire.livejournal.com]

Well, I can say, hand on heart, that I've never fancied you. I don't mean that in a nasty way, and I'm sure you know I don't. However, I have noticed, on many occasions, that your volume control seems to believe that LOUD is the right end to be set at. ;)

Vanessa is very much wrong. I notice the existence of many people I have no desire to get intimate with. I would even go as far as to say I often prefer the company of people where I don't feel any pressure and am not constantly aware of how uncool and dorky I am. I often choose to sit with people who are just good fun to be around because there's so much less pressure when it's just a group of friends than when you're thinking/wondering/hoping that bedroom action might happen. ;)

I'm sure what Vanessa says has a tiny grounding in reality. I'm sure there are some men who do that, but then I'm sure there are some women who do it as well. I think the person Vanessa is giving advice to has had some reasonably bad advice. It could be that the guy just really likes her company, but doesn't want a relationship with her. It's possible that the guy wants sexy time with her, but the basis of Vanessa's advice is bull. :)

LONG REPLY TIME IS OVER NOW! ;)

[hellison.livejournal.com]

I think the problem with my volume control is that the cider shorts it out and ... acutally no, I think it just doesn't really exist ;p

And that's a very good point about the lack of pressure; one of the reasons I enjoy the infrequent nights out with these guys is precisely that!

The reason vanessa's 'advice' stuck in my head was because I thought it so outrageously wrong. Until I had cider and discovered someone had Failed to Notice me! THE HORROR!
*swoons at the very thought*